Abarthisti

Tuning & Modifications => Abarth 500 => Topic started by: Danny-hall on June 20, 2015, 04:18:23 pm

Title: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: Danny-hall on June 20, 2015, 04:18:23 pm
Hi, just installed a TD04L turbo and just wondering if anybody on here knows what the engine internals and gearbox has been pushed to before things start to go wrong, at the minute im running around 210/220bhp, not sure on my torgue untill i get the car on the dyno. Also running quite low boost on this turbo to get it 210/220 bhp so carnt imagine the torgue being stupidly high.
All help/advice appreciated
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: T_Andre on June 20, 2015, 04:23:07 pm
Hi there,

you can run 240HP safe. Internals are not really good, but ok for 240 to 250hp. We meassured everything out, tested and so on. Bad point on the Ecu -> bad fuel, bad mapping and to much Torque . The TD04 is often used from older Iveco Turbodaylies. Especially the Italian guys use this "turbos"

Gearbox, not necessary to convert to m32 6speed as you wrote. My mate runs 340PS+ with OEM C510 Gearbox. Torque is under 400NM.

Any questions... feel free to ask!
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: Danny-hall on June 21, 2015, 08:40:11 am
Thanls help mate
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: flutes on June 21, 2015, 12:30:13 pm
Hi there,

you can run 240HP safe. Internals are not really good, but ok for 240 to 250hp. We meassured everything out, tested and so on. Bad point on the Ecu -> bad fuel, bad mapping and to much Torque . The TD04 is often used from older Iveco Turbodaylies. Especially the Italian guys use this "turbos"

Gearbox, not necessary to convert to m32 6speed as you wrote. My mate runs 340PS+ with OEM C510 Gearbox. Torque is under 400NM.

Any questions... feel free to ask!
Any thoughts on this level of power with the MTA box? I've read of issues with the transmission ECU not working properly, not rev matching, auto not drivable
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: T_Andre on June 21, 2015, 01:02:41 pm
To be frank. I´m not sure to 100%, but let me tell you.

If you want to set the RPM Limiter higher you will see poblems with the MTA Gearbox.

If you have the 1446 installed you can use an Hybrid Turbo for this Powergoal.
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: flutes on June 21, 2015, 02:03:01 pm
To be frank. I´m not sure to 100%, but let me tell you.

If you want to set the RPM Limiter higher you will see poblems with the MTA Gearbox.

If you have the 1446 installed you can use an Hybrid Turbo for this Powergoal.
Thanks, that's an issue.

I'm currently on the stock IHI turbo on SS. I'm looking to upgrade though and not sure about the GT1446 or the TD04
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: T_Andre on June 21, 2015, 02:12:55 pm
The GT1446 will work, also the TD04. A little bit of customs parts and good mapping and all should be fine  ;)

Garrett with MTA is done manytimes. TD04 will also work. Upgrade GT1446 is arround the 240hp mark......
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: T_Andre on June 21, 2015, 03:29:04 pm
Just to complete what i wrote:

The rod on the Fire engine is also an problem for Torque, not for HP. In the Engine inside (as you can see; is really no space) Most of the rods needs grinding inside the Block. We tested and meassured as good as we can ;)

(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc0581csk6ty1qxh.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)

in comparsion to the OEM one

(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsc0588hlpew1q752.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)

Piston is ok for Power up to 270 to 290HP with good mapping. First the rod will go.. you can see it here

(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/damagedjihrksw48n.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)

Its the test engine installed with the new crank for 1600cc.

Regards
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: flutes on June 22, 2015, 01:07:43 am
Great info, thanks.

So around 240hp and 350NM is within operating boundaries with the stock engine, good to know.

With your test engine and the thrown rod below, how much torque do you think you were generating then?
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: T_Andre on June 22, 2015, 06:51:29 am
Hi!

With 350NM its at the 100% Limit. Better arround the 320NM mark. HP its not an (real) Problem with 1446 or TD04.

The Rod came out at around 400NM.
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: Kimusubi007 on June 22, 2015, 06:57:32 am
For this car around the 330Nm is plenty anyway as this will make your wheels spin in almost all gears...
Next issue is torque steer.....
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: T_Andre on June 22, 2015, 07:03:08 am
No no, You will see Peak Torque a little bit later. 1. +2. Gear maybe Wheelspin, but then all fine ;) . If someone need more traction its possible to convert the OEM Gearbox ;)
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: flutes on June 22, 2015, 07:19:17 am
For this car around the 330Nm is plenty anyway as this will make your wheels spin in almost all gears...
Next issue is torque steer.....
No no, You will see Peak Torque a little bit later. 1. +2. Gear maybe Wheelspin, but then all fine ;) . If someone need more traction its possible to convert the OEM Gearbox ;)
I'm not touching the gearbox!!

How is this controlled through mapping to prevent too much torque? Do you just do dyno runs, then adjust *something* until it is maxing out around that level?
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: tapi0 on June 22, 2015, 03:32:44 pm
Knowing Fiat gearboxes they need differential lock when adding more power.
Atleast old ones get easily broken when only one side of wheels spin.

I'm going to put Quaife to my car sometime when the warranty time is over.
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: AbarthIT on June 22, 2015, 03:40:30 pm
Hi there,

you can run 240HP safe. Internals are not really good, but ok for 240 to 250hp. We meassured everything out, tested and so on. Bad point on the Ecu -> bad fuel, bad mapping and to much Torque . The TD04 is often used from older Iveco Turbodaylies. Especially the Italian guys use this "turbos"

Gearbox, not necessary to convert to m32 6speed as you wrote. My mate runs 340PS+ with OEM C510 Gearbox. Torque is under 400NM.

Any questions... feel free to ask!

Why would you want to convert to a M32?! That gearbox has an limit of 320NM and is really, I mean really, unrealiable. I delivers a lot of problems for Bravo/159/OPC drivers.
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: T_Andre on June 23, 2015, 06:19:07 am
@tapiO

The C510 Gearbox is very very strong. I have done many 1.9l Stroker conversions for PGT or Uno Turbo. Some drive with 28RS, some with GT3071R. Not one gearbox is broken since many years. Torque is arround 380NM to 450NM on the old 8V engines ;)

I never would convert to M32 :)
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: Freddyd on June 23, 2015, 08:00:17 am
@T_Andre:
Where in Germany are u situated? Do you also map cars?
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: manuel girardi on June 23, 2015, 09:53:42 am
after many tests on this engine we understand that the maximum limit with my kit TD04 is 240 hp without the possibility of replacing the pistons and connecting rods !!! to go beyond the 240 hp it is recommended that you  replace pistons, connecting rods, valves and valve springs !!!
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: tapi0 on June 23, 2015, 02:57:45 pm
@tapiO

The C510 Gearbox is very very strong. I have done many 1.9l Stroker conversions for PGT or Uno Turbo. Some drive with 28RS, some with GT3071R. Not one gearbox is broken since many years. Torque is arround 380NM to 450NM on the old 8V engines ;)

I never would convert to M32 :)
Yes the gears may be strong but atleast mk1 Uno Turbo gearbox does not last long if you do only one side of wheels spin. I know few that have cracked gearbox case because original differential has got broken. The shifting gears though are quite strong in C510. I don't know if they have made improvement to differential as the time has passed from Uno Turbo. :)
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: T_Andre on June 23, 2015, 05:08:35 pm
@ www.google.co.uk

no, thats not correct. We are with OEM Head at 340HP and revlimiter arround 7700rpm
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: manuel girardi on June 23, 2015, 05:13:02 pm

impossible that an engine without replacing the pistons and connecting rods can hold 340 hp
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: T_Andre on June 23, 2015, 05:17:11 pm
..i wrote with OEM Head ;)

Pistons and Rods are forged, mate
Title: Re: 1.4 T-jet engine limits
Post by: Medihummer on June 23, 2015, 10:27:21 pm
We replaced the oem diff by the biposto LSD which is a 30 % LSD i believe.  The engine torque is 420 NM but i worry about the longevity of the transmission. We had a lot of trouble with the software on the euro6 mta