Garage => The Abarthisti Garage => Topic started by: mj2k on October 26, 2021, 02:49:16 am
Title: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on October 26, 2021, 02:49:16 am
My 'new' Abarth arrived today, bought as a Cat N from Copart:
Not a bad looking car from one side: (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/e8bTqH.jpg)
But not quite so good from the other: (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/uqyocj.jpg)
Drove off the lorry and into the garage under it's own steam, but noticed it was getting a quite hot considering it had moved so little. Checked the expansion tank - empty. So looks like I'll be needing a new radiator. And then did a quick measure of the distance between a headlight mount and the bulkhead - 2 cm different which was a bit worrying...
And then noticed the camber was a bit off: (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/pVIwXd.jpg)
Jacked it up and removed the o/s/f wheel - oh dear: (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/2cMG4Y.jpg)
Still need to investigate why the wheel was grinding against the shock, but guess I'll be needing a new wheel (or set of wheels) and will definitely be needing the nice new Konis I bought
Then had a look at the bumper - it's worse than it appeared in the pics - the lower grille is damaged and there's a weirdly shaped hole in the middle. I'll get to that later...
So set about removing the damaged front wing, needed to be done ASAP since it was damaging the driver's door. Bit of a faff because of the sealant and I ended up having to bend the door a little more to reach the top wing bolt:
Looks like that hole in the bumper (and 2cm difference between headlight mounts) was caused by hitting a tow hook. Just goes to show how much damage that can cause...
Kept on stripping down until I finally came to good components (so I'll need offside headlights / indicator, rad, aircon condenser, front panel and crash bar), and finally got to the turbo. Looks like the cat took a hit so I hope it isn't crumbling inside now.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on October 26, 2021, 12:53:42 pm
Sounds sensible, is there any way to move this post to there, or should I just copy / paste the text?
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: 124Abarthreplica on October 26, 2021, 01:06:42 pm
I'll move it across when you open you new Abarth garage :thumb:
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: David_S_Walker on October 26, 2021, 01:52:32 pm
Hello,
I shall follow this with interest not because I need to do similar but because I watch your projects over on UKLegacy.com with more than the usual interest.
Good luck!
Best regards,
David :thumb:
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on October 27, 2021, 12:30:29 am
I shall follow this with interest not because I need to do similar but because I watch your projects over on UKLegacy.com with more than the usual interest.
Good luck!
Best regards,
David :thumb:
Thanks :)
Hopefully this won't turn into quite such a mad project as my last Legacy (350 bhp and the potential for 500 when I only wanted 200 was a bit daft), but assuming I can make it roadworthy again it'll be getting Brembos, Konis and lowering springs all round, etc. And if I can't, I guess my original idea of crossbreeding a breaker (albeit quite an expensive one!) with a normal 500c might well be back on the cards again...
Title: mj2k - very poorly 2015 Abarth 595 Turismo
Post by: mj2k on October 27, 2021, 12:49:04 am
Spec: TBC once I know if I can bring it back to life!
More images to follow, along with hopefully the project thread
Title: Re: mj2k - very poorly 2015 Abarth 595 Turismo
Post by: mj2k on October 27, 2021, 12:57:21 am
My original plan was to buy a scrap Abarth 500 from Copart and transfer the engine, loom, interior, etc across to a plain old 500c.
I'd spotted the above rather gorgeous looking beast on Copart and put in a speculative offer which didn't reach reserve, and since the seller didn't respond in the allocated window, thought no more about it.
I then found cheap yellow 2010 500c with a black stripe (which I christened the bumblebee) which looked like the perfect candidate for my engine swap plans, since it had no crash damage recorded, and appeared to be in quite good condition except for ripped seats and 140k on the clock. I'd put down a deposit on it and was planning my journey to collect it when everything went a bit weird...
Somehow my bid on the 'proper' Abarth got accepted even though it was outside the window, and I was then obliged to buy it. Which meant goodbye to the bumble bee (and my deposit and train tickets, which I'd bought to collect it), and hello to a pretty but somewhat more expensive than I intended Copart rescue.
Still, it looked in fine condition except for the damaged o/s/f wing / lights and bumper, and seemed like an easy repair for a Cat N, so eagerly awaited it's arrival.
Rest of the project thread to be transferred over hopefully :)
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on October 27, 2021, 01:02:06 am
Then fitted the replacement lower light, and with a bit of gentle persuasion from a heat gun managed to reshape the bumper into something close to it's original form:
Bottom part where the spotlight was mounted is still damaged and will need to sort that once the replacement spot arrives, but the replacement intercoolers all fit nicely now:
I could most likely reshape the front panel to make it fit again too, but I need a proper straight panel as a template to check if anything else is damaged, so will leave that since I have a replacement coming. Upper crash bar is totally cream crackered of course.
Next job is to remove the damaged strut so I can work out what's going on with the o/s/f wheel, but got caught out by the familiar bugbear of the strut top bolts being rusted into place, so still doing that one at the mo...
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on October 28, 2021, 10:10:57 am
I know why the wheel was so badly canted over now :D
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on October 29, 2021, 12:09:11 pm
Replaced the n/s/f wing (will need to get it sprayed later since it's still in primer) and fitted the other new Koni / Eibach spring to the n/s/f.
Looking good, but the gap between the wheel and spring is still too small on the o/s/f so I need to figure out what else could be bent. The lower arm and mounts look fine so I suspect it's the hub carrier, but that seems unlikely since it's cast. Does anyone else have any ideas what may be causing the excessive negative camber?
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: 124Abarthreplica on October 29, 2021, 03:42:31 pm
I would suggest taking a few measurements between easy to find points on the body/chassis and post them here.
I'll compare with mine and perhaps other 500 owners will join in. :thumb:
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on October 29, 2021, 06:37:47 pm
I would suggest taking a few measurements between easy to find points on the body/chassis and post them here.
I'll compare with mine and perhaps other 500 owners will join in. :thumb:
Thanks, sounds like a plan :thumb:
I've got my replacement front panel / crash bar so I can finally pull it into some sort of shape, check panel gaps, etc and take some decent measurements. Even initial results look good before I've tightened it down properly - the gap between the front panel and bulkhead match on either side, though I do need to cut out and replace a damaged piece of crumple zone just behind the bumper bar (pics to follow).
I've also ordered a new wishbone (it's bound to need replacing eventually) and a 2nd hand hub carrier to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on October 30, 2021, 12:16:52 pm
...And yesterday my replacement front panel arrived. It's come from a much older car which presumably died of rust / neglect rather than crash damage, so though I'll need to do a bit of respraying and rust prevention I know it's not bent. If I'd bought one from a newer car I could almost guarantee it had come from another Copart victim so I might have been trying to align a bent panel with another bent panel, which would not be good.
Fitted - it doesn't look bad at all. You may notice I've left the rad and aircon condenser off, the reasons for that will become clear...
If I was really iffy and was just turning the car round for a quick buck I'd just stick a couple of washers in there and have done with it (a good reason to beware of Cat N / S cars if they've been repaired and are being sold on quick by a trader). But my plan is to make this car a 'keeper' if I enjoy driving it, so cut out the damaged section:
I've got a new crumple zone panel on order via Ebay (a v lucky find) so it'll all have to come apart again once that panel arrives so I can weld it in. Been a while since I've done any welding, so I hope my skills aren't as rusty as some of the classics I used to patch together :D
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 01, 2021, 03:31:40 am
Ok, got some measurements (all done from centre of bolt):
First of all, the front panel. The bit which was obviously bent: (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/1OWLHW.jpg) Scuttle mount peg to headlight bolt (orange) - 33.5cm Scuttle mount peg to rear front panel bolt (red) - 26.5cm Rear front panel bolt to rear front panel bolt (green) - 120.5cm Bonnet lock sticky up bit to scuttle panel rubber rear edge (blue) - 45cm
And the probably bent lower arm. Distance in parenthesis is the likely bent offside if different: (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/UHVf8A.jpg) Rear wishbone mount (plate with 3 big bolts): Inner bolt to outer bolt (blue), either one - 23.5cm Outer bolt to outer bolt (not coloured) - 13cm Front of rear mount to front of front mount (green) - 34cm Front front mount to wishbone's balljoint centre (orange) - 34 (32) cm Front rear mount to balljoint centre (red) - 44 (45) cm Balljoint centre to front edge of hole in jacking point (unmarked) - 46.5 (49) cm!
It looks like the n/s/f wishbone (which is much newer than the other side) appears to actually be stretched by 1-2cm, which is weird, it should be shorter. No signs of any damage to the lower wishbone mounts or subframe either to explain it.
Not quite sure how a cast wishbone can get stretched, seems extremely unlikely. Only things I can think of are that the wishbone bushes became ovalled in the crash (won't know for sure 'til the wishbone's out) or that the wishbone, which appears to be a recently fitted pattern part, is actually the wrong wishbone for the car, and thus the camber difference is unrelated to the crash ???
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 01, 2021, 04:04:10 am
Actually, thinking about it, the shortened orange distance but longer red distance suggests the front wishbone bush (or it's mount) has been damaged. If the former, that's a nice, easy fix. If the latter that'll be a replacement subframe, which will be a pain but not the end of the world.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 04, 2021, 12:55:10 pm
So started dismantling the front end ready for examining the chassis leg to make sure there's no hidden damage, before welding in the new section. And then found this with the hub carrier:
Aside from looking different the Abarth carrier (on the right) has 3 degrees less 'incline' than the 1.2 Pop one on the left, which would certainly explain the odd camber - without a little bit of a bend where it's bolted onto the strut the wheel will be facing straight in towards it!
Admittedly this isn't a 'final answer' since the 1.2 hatch hub carrier (which I bought cheap for reference) has a different wheel camber to the Abarth / 500c / diesel (which all have the same) so I'll need to wait for a replacement Abarth one to come in via Ebay, but it certainly looks like the cast hub carrier is indeed bent. If my findings are right and the camber is exactly right with a new hub carrier, that's confirmation there's no lower chassis damage so I can get on with a road test once the lower arm's replaced (still waiting for that to be delivered) and the bumper mount's been repaired (still waiting for that too)
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 13, 2021, 12:13:33 pm
That's it, new section welded in and smothered in paint / rustproofing to prevent any future corrosion issues:
Also cleaned out this little odd area just behind the brake pipe mount and applied rustproofing, aside from potentially helping the car on the way to the scrapyard after it's 10th birthday, what on earth is it for?
Today will be spent (once I've done the chores) rustproofing the other side too, refitting the wings and replacing a bent water pipe. Still won't be able to refit the front panel though - I'm waiting for a couple of turbo pipes to arrive, yet another bit of knock-on damage ::)
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: 124Abarthreplica on November 13, 2021, 03:50:46 pm
Good work. :thumb:
I take it that may sort the alignment issue?
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 13, 2021, 04:30:21 pm
Yes, it looks like it has, at least as far as my phone's spirit level app says. Only way to know 100% for sure is to take it in for tracking, but need to get it roadworthy first.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 15, 2021, 01:43:17 am
Alignment looked fine once I'd got the wings on - both sides looked identical, so unless everything goes wobbly and wonky when I drive it, I think that's all the crash damage sorted. And then I moved onto a job I'd been dreading - replacing the bent water and turbo pipes.
It was an entire day's job and involved removing all the turbo heat shielding, the cat + mounts, the battery tray and ecu, unclipping a lot of cables, undoing both the hvac pipes, removing the air filter assembly and all intercooler pipes and removing every pipe to the turbo bar one.
I needed to replace a couple of turbo pipes anyway because they were bent, but I'd definitely recommend steering clear of any car with a corroded / damaged water pipe, it's basically almost all the steps you'd need to follow to change the turbo and clutch...!
Still, on the bright side I'd say I'm a couple of evenings' work at most from being able to drive the car, well assuming none of the oil / water pipes leak after all that fiddling about.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 16, 2021, 02:50:57 pm
Wohoo, just had it running properly for the first time since I got it :lala:
Still got a 'check engine' warning so need to check that out and I must say it's not the smoothest sounding engine ever. I do hope it's not been overheated and spun a bearing, but don't know what they're supposed to sound like at idle so it might be normal, this is the first 4 cylinder inline engine I've owned in over 20 years...
Leaving it to cool down so I can top up the coolant, check for leaks, etc, then time to try and get multiecuscan or suchlike up and running (still have that installed from the Alfa) to see what the CEL is about. Assuming all is well, it's then time to sort out and fit the replacement bumper, and then time for a road test.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 16, 2021, 03:03:07 pm
Actually not quite right - the Pug XU10J4 2.0 was a an inline four, but it was very revvy and well-balanced so if the engine itself sounded like anything but a well-oiled sewing machine you knew it was done for.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 17, 2021, 02:55:19 pm
Still not checked into the error codes (turns out none of my diags kit will talk to a modern Fiat) but took it for a 5 min drive around the block - feels just right. And the light clattering has calmed down, must have been because it hasn't run for quite a long time.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 17, 2021, 03:43:22 pm
A nice little bluetooth ELM 327 adaptor just arrived in the post, connected it to Torque Lite, cleared the fault code for the damaged wastegate actuator which I replaced, and it didn't come back instantly.
Just need the new tyres (for my new wheels), V5 (so I can get some new number plates) and a fresh MOT, and I can start driving it.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: 124Abarthreplica on November 17, 2021, 04:37:58 pm
And the light clattering has calmed down, must have been because it hasn't run for quite a long time.
Hydraulic tappets :thumb:
I hoped as much, I'm guessing it's been a good 2-3 months since this car's last been run :thumb:
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 19, 2021, 12:54:15 am
V5 came through so rushed down to Halfords for some insanely expensive number plates, just got to get the new wheels fitted tomorrow with Goodyear Eagles + get wheel alignment checked, and it's ready for an MOT to make sure I haven't missed anything.
Also did a couple of short runs in it and clocked up about 20 miles on twisty roads, I definitely prefer the steering feel in 'normal mode' to sport - the torque steer isn't so obvious when accelerating out of a corner and it doesn't have a weird dead spot around straight ahead with the epas.
Is there any way to remap the epas? If not I suspect I won't be using sport mode very much ;)
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: 124Abarthreplica on November 19, 2021, 09:54:26 am
I agree with you regarding the steering feel, much too artificial in sport mode. :-X
I am not aware of a work around.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 19, 2021, 10:58:21 am
I agree with you regarding the steering feel, much too artificial in sport mode. :-X
I am not aware of a work around.
I was thinking about trying to fiddle a standard 500 cabrio epas in there (the weighting's about the same on them I think) but if it did work presumably the 'sport mode' would then result in the steering having 'parking mode' weighting, which may feel even worse. Might have to have a word with a remapper at some point to see if the ecu map can be altered so the 'sport mode' button doesn't change the epas setting.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 19, 2021, 03:02:07 pm
Sorted. New number plates on, new wheels on, wheels aligned :)
It definitely feels like it has a little more 'urge' with the lighter wheels on, seems to tramline less and feels more stable. Not sure if that's down to a small difference in tracking, the slightly wider wheel track or swapping to Goodyear Eagles, but it certainly feels good...
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: a3Jeroen on November 19, 2021, 03:31:48 pm
Mine is always (and Ireally mean always) in Sportmode. Kinda feels broken in normal mode.
gr J
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 20, 2021, 12:40:16 am
Mine is always (and Ireally mean always) in Sportmode. Kinda feels broken in normal mode.
gr J
I'd probably like it if it wasn't for the epas, it just feels wrong to me. Car certainly feels nice and chuckable on it's new wheels, I suspect I might be fitting some DNA Racing components sometime to sharpen it up even more, though that would mean a switch to coilovers, which I don't particularly want to do yet.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 24, 2021, 09:33:00 am
Interesting day yesterday, it passed it's MOT with flying colours, not even a single advisory :lala:
And whilst I was waiting for the MOT results, these landed on my doorstep, so once I've got a bit more used to it, the modifications can begin
I have noticed one little oddity though - if you're wide open throttle and then back off a lot on the approach to a corner the car does a near-imperceptible wiggle. This would most likely be hidden by the straight ahead 'dead spot' in sport mode (maybe that's eve why the dead spot is there), but is this normal?
It'll be easy to get used to if it is, and may even become endearing (bit like it's a bit over-excited) but will obv need more investigation if it isn't...
BTW I did some 'brake maths' (using the aptly named Subaru 'brakemath' spreadsheet) and it looks like the Brembos will move the brake bias 8% towards the front, which given it's already got a massive front brake bias, might explain why many reviewers mention the car diving under heavy braking... I'm thinking vaguely of trying out 'fast road' pads on the back whilst leaving standard pads on the front because this will pull the bias 13% back towards the rear, but this might prove to be too much given the car's roughly 70/30 weight distribution.
Anyone else tried anything similar to balance the brakes up a bit, or is messing with the rears a recipe for a fishtailing disaster?
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 24, 2021, 10:00:02 am
Thinking about it more and using a bit of O level / gcse physics, I wonder if the wiggle is caused by the 'wobble blob' strut top mounts? Bearing in mind the front strut top mounts are basically a big lump of rubber which aren't anchored to the car, if you suddenly remove a lot of clockwise twisting motion from them (torque) by backing off the throttle, they're bound to spring back a bit even if they're brand new (like mine).
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 24, 2021, 05:50:43 pm
Put in an order for some new rear discs and EBC Greenstuff pads. Figured they'd be a safe choice for the rears since that's only a slight pad upgrade over standard, though will be interesting to see how they cope; sounds like they may not suit lightweight cars unless you do a lot of heavy braking judging by some reviews, but we shall see...
Also bought some standard Brembo-made pads for the front; Brembos can be a bit choosy about the pads (they can stick if not exactly right) so worth getting the real McCoy.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on November 25, 2021, 10:05:29 am
Took it on my usual 14 mile round trip down country roads to the local Tesco, definitely about 10mph slower out of the corners than my old modified Subaru Legacy wagon. But then I'm not 100% confident in it yet and I suspect the centre of gravity will be somewhat higher and nearer the front, so not too surprising.
Still great fun though, and as a major plus on the way back all the shopping crammed into the boot, which meant the bags stayed upright and I didn't have to spend another 10 minutes hunting for lost groceries rolling around in the back, like I did with the Legacy ;D
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on December 01, 2021, 04:45:54 pm
Fitted the Monza last night and finished off in lunchtime today. I planned to fit the rear brake pads / discs at the same time but since I'm fitting braided lines and need the car tonight, that wasn't practical.
Decided to take the rear bumper off since it makes swapping back boxes easier (easier to get to the mounts and gives you more wiggle room if the tailpipes aren't hitting the splitter) and I wanted to do some investigation around the rear wheelarches and stick some more rustproofing in, so out came the wheelarches, off came the tail lights (remarkably filthy in their aperture) and off came the bumper.
Nothing too scary in the rear wheelarches (unless you don't like spiders - there were loads of cobwebs behind my wheelarch liners) but where the bumper attaches to the corner of the rear wheearch there is a double-skinned area (much like any other car at that point) so will have to stick some waxoyl in that corner when the rear trim's out to prevent any future issues.
I spent some time researching a lubricant with v high heat resistance for the Monza's valve, and found out the one I use for almost everything is the best (copperease) - it has a 1500c limit :D So diluted some with a little white spirit, smeared it over the spring-loaded hinge and allowed it to trickle in whilst working it back and forth. It wasn't bad to begin with but now it's 'as new' smooth as it operates.
Then stuck a load of waxoyl in any exposed nooks and crannies and a nice covering over the paintwork inside the wheelarch liners, and all back together.
Off with the old (look at those filthy indicator apertures!):
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on December 06, 2021, 03:00:22 pm
Just finished fitting the Brembos, new discs and uprated pads at the rear. Not much of an unsprung weight saving at the front (0.5kg per side) and probably rotational mass has increased slightly (due to the increased front disc diameter, even with 2 piece discs), but subjectively they feel nice (but then they would to me, given all the time / money I spent on them ::) ) and they look good:
But... Did you try the turismowheels? Do they fit?
gr J
Nope, the spokes would have hit the Brembos; think I posted a pic somewhere or another. It would have needed quite a big spacer for them to work, and I'm not a huge fan of spacers.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: a3Jeroen on December 08, 2021, 09:56:16 am
Ok. Thanks for confirming.
gr J
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on December 08, 2021, 02:15:00 pm
Looks like I didn't take a pic after all (I didn't rest the Turismo wheels on for very long 'cos they'd have scratched the Brembo paintwork) but Brembos are always very wide so clearance is pretty close even on the MAKs which I bought especially to fit over them:
There's prob a pretty good chance some 3rd party brake solution would fit under the Turismo wheels fine though, generally the 3rd party calipers aren't such hulking great impressive-looking things.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on December 27, 2021, 12:58:18 pm
I'm all-but done now, still need to finish fiddling with it, but I'm replacing the Lego-style default boost gauge with the standard 500's 'accessory port' (this supplies power and a mount point for a satnav), and fitting a small digital boost gauge (much easier to read out of the corner of your eye and doesn't steal much windscreen 'real estate'):
I wasn't fond of the default single din stereo (poor sound quality and poor radio reception) so I've replaced it with an old top-of-the-range Pioneer which had a rear accessory port and rear remote control. Still need to fit the remote control cabling (this will allow the volume buttons on the steering wheel to work) but using an adaptor cable I constructed plus the Pioneer accessory port I can still use the car's built-in Blue&Me functions, like being able to make phone calls, or use the handy USB port near the handbrake:
Also still need to replace the default speakers since though sound quality's greatly improved it does still need some work, and I need to consider if I should swap to a different aerial; I swapped for a shark fin with a powered signal booster, but the radio signal's no better than the default one. However it does look nice, and I've now got a DAB radio feed if I can ever find a GEX-P700/900 DAB unit to go with my stereo.
I was in two minds about fitting Sabelt seats; I love the colour and style of my current interior (it reminds me of my old Alfa 916 gtv) but I need a lower passenger seat since my other half hits her head on the sunroof, and the default seats are quite heavy. However after my weight research in this thread - https://www.abarthforum.co.uk/500-abarth-tuning/component-weights (https://www.abarthforum.co.uk/500-abarth-tuning/component-weights) I definitely won't be getting Sabelts now - they weigh slightly more than the standard Abarth seats and though the passenger seat would be lower (esp with lowering rails) it removes the height adjustment and robs some rear leg room. So I'll be searching for a LHD driver's seat base so I can add some height adjustment instead.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on January 20, 2022, 01:36:14 am
A few more mods...
I wired in the boost gauge properly, the only sensible place to add it without drilling the manifold was using a t piece on the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator, but I'm going to have to keep a careful eye on that since any vacuum leaks there could be disastrous:
Also swapped to a Comp gear knob (feels much more comfortable for fast changes) and a different stereo, to match the rest of the all-black interior.
Sparcos complete with seat frame didn't save a huge amount of weight (about 5kg vs the Sabelts), reaching the seatbelts is a pain and getting into the rear seats is a pain too since the seats don't slide when they tilt, but the interior mods do seem to have made a difference to the handling, at least for me...
The round steering wheel allows me to slip the wheel and use the torque steer to my advantage besides feeling more comfortable. And I feel much more confident in the corners, though whether that's down to the placebo effect of the lowered, harder seating combined with the better support in corners or whether the small drop in weight over the front wheels combined with the lower seating position actually moved the centre of gravity to a more desirable position is anybody's guess.
Either way I can now take the near-constant tight corners in my favorite stretch of road fast enough to make myself feel slightly queasy, though whether that's a good thing or not is open to interpretation :D
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on January 20, 2022, 01:43:47 am
I might still swap back to the 500 GQ Edition seats in place of the Sparcos though depending on the other half's verdict - I worked out how to lower the rear of the passenger seat base using a cannibalized driver's seat adjuster minus the adjustment mechanism and they're incredibly comfy on long journeys at the expense of not holding you as well in the corners:
Both sets of seats slightly improve rear legroom over the Abarth seats whatever though, and both lose a couple of kg weight too, so whichever set meets the other half's approval is fine with me. Both match the rest of the GQ Edition interior too:
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: davidbuckden on February 04, 2022, 12:19:16 pm
Very interested to see the project having just found the thread. I hope you'll get everything through to completion and have a result that's really satisfying.
Noticing especially your recent posts, I thought your opinion on seating might be helpful for me please. My liking for the Abarth marque was reignited a few years ago on seeing the new 595 models. I have always loved small cars with relatively high power outputs and I was very impressed by the chutzpah of both the engineering/specification and the aesthetic design of the 595s. As I got into a Turismo, I was immediately delighted to see that the 'look' of the interior was every bit as good as photographs had suggested. I also took straightaway to how the engine sounded and performed. But . . . also, immediately, I felt oddly disconnected from the car. The sensation to me was of sitting ON it, rather than IN it. I've experienced some marvellous cars in my time in which I felt completely 'at one' with the chassis, for example Alfasud Sprint Veloce, Saab 96 TS, BMW 2002 Tii, and my current VW Lupo Gti. The 595 looking as good as it does, gave me nothing like that sensation. Trying to understand it, and appreciating that the suspension set-up/ride height and suchlike may be areas that could be tweaked, I came to the conclusion that I needed to be sitting far lower in the car. As I can't seem to shake off my underlying 'itch' to run an Abarth, I'm just wondering what you think, especially as you've apparently had recent experience with some standard ones, some R100s and the GQs?
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on February 05, 2022, 03:26:57 am
Very interested to see the project having just found the thread. I hope you'll get everything through to completion and have a result that's really satisfying.
Noticing especially your recent posts, I thought your opinion on seating might be helpful for me please. My liking for the Abarth marque was reignited a few years ago on seeing the new 595 models. I have always loved small cars with relatively high power outputs and I was very impressed by the chutzpah of both the engineering/specification and the aesthetic design of the 595s. As I got into a Turismo, I was immediately delighted to see that the 'look' of the interior was every bit as good as photographs had suggested. I also took straightaway to how the engine sounded and performed. But . . . also, immediately, I felt oddly disconnected from the car. The sensation to me was of sitting ON it, rather than IN it. I've experienced some marvellous cars in my time in which I felt completely 'at one' with the chassis, for example Alfasud Sprint Veloce, Saab 96 TS, BMW 2002 Tii, and my current VW Lupo Gti. The 595 looking as good as it does, gave me nothing like that sensation. Trying to understand it, and appreciating that the suspension set-up/ride height and suchlike may be areas that could be tweaked, I came to the conclusion that I needed to be sitting far lower in the car. As I can't seem to shake off my underlying 'itch' to run an Abarth, I'm just wondering what you think, especially as you've apparently had recent experience with some standard ones, some R100s and the GQs?
Not owned many VWs (the two I have were both nightmares so don't touch them) but otherwise it seems like we've owned some quite similar cars in the past (BMW 2002 touring, Alfa GTV, 156 GTA, which was surprisingly dreadful in the corners, various Subarus, which are basically a turbocharged Sud with 4wd, Pug 205/306 GTi, etc) so I know where you're coming from with that 'disconnected' feeling - it affected my confidence in the car's cornering abilities a bit.
But I've got the Sparco R100s fitted now, just finishing a retrim with perforated vinyl seat base material / memory foam to combat the uncomfortable (and no doubt sweaty in the summer) vinyl / foam originals, but apart from that I'd say they're fantastic :) Fitting the Sparcos made me realize my lack of confidence in the car's cornering abilities was mostly down to the seats (as you concluded), and having the lower seating position (which may have altered the roll centre slightly too), better bolstering and getting more feedback from the chassis transmitted to my body (which may not be desirable for all) has left me chucking the car into corners with almost the same level of confidence as I had in my favorite Pugs and Subarus :thumb:
There are a few niggles though - I'm still to test them on a long journey (still need to finish the reworked seat bases) but I strongly suspect they'll be less comfy than the GQ seats, I do find the headrest position a little annoying since it prevents you reaching the seatbelt, and rear seat access is harder since the seat tilt doesn't slide the seat forward. But they actually slightly improve rear legroom, and the improved feel means the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.
Other tweaks I've done which seem to improve the Abarth's feel more than I expected were fitting the round steering wheel from a standard 500 Sport and the alloy gear shift knob from a Comp, along with fitting a spare wheel, which puts a few extra kg over the rear axle. Also oddly, the steering feels slightly less artificial if left in 'standard' rather than 'sport' mode, so I always leave it in 'standard'.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on February 05, 2022, 03:40:58 am
Looks like I've repeated myself a bit and annoyingly you can't go back and edit posts once you've posted them, but in short I'd say a set of Sparcos would make you like the feel of the car a whole lot more.
Do try one with the Sabelts fitted too though - they might well give the same feel with less faff, albeit heavier and more expensive, and it's likely to be a far more pleasant test drive if you find one the factory Sabelts fitted rather than surprising the seller with a spanner and 3rd party seat :D
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: davidbuckden on February 05, 2022, 11:39:14 am
Thanks for taking the trouble to reply so promptly and comprehensively. I can easily follow the logic of what you've said, and I feel genuinely encouraged now that I could find myself driving one of these after all. Not only do I remain as impressed as I was on first sight with the style of the 595s, but I've also been pleased to see how strong the Abarth ownership culture seems to be, with so many examples, in a great number of styling detail variations, to be seen at shows like AutoItalia, Brooklands. From these turn-outs, it would appear that Abarth - belying the usual 'niche' classification - is one of the very best enthusiast-supported contemporary marques. BTW - my experience with VW goes back to a '55 oval Beetle I bought for £75 in '68, and I've driven/owned countless VWs since, (and have also done some work for the brand.) The Lupo is something I'd guess you'd enjoy - lightweight (975 kg.), tiny footprint, atmo 123 bhp, no ESC, etc. There are all sorts of fancy teched-up things you can mug with that! Regards. David
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on February 07, 2022, 03:37:58 am
Thanks for taking the trouble to reply so promptly and comprehensively. I can easily follow the logic of what you've said, and I feel genuinely encouraged now that I could find myself driving one of these after all. Not only do I remain as impressed as I was on first sight with the style of the 595s, but I've also been pleased to see how strong the Abarth ownership culture seems to be, with so many examples, in a great number of styling detail variations, to be seen at shows like AutoItalia, Brooklands. From these turn-outs, it would appear that Abarth - belying the usual 'niche' classification - is one of the very best enthusiast-supported contemporary marques. BTW - my experience with VW goes back to a '55 oval Beetle I bought for £75 in '68, and I've driven/owned countless VWs since, (and have also done some work for the brand.) The Lupo is something I'd guess you'd enjoy - lightweight (975 kg.), tiny footprint, atmo 123 bhp, no ESC, etc. There are all sorts of fancy teched-up things you can mug with that! Regards. David
No worries :)
Definitely plenty of interest out there, just a shame the UI on this forum is a bit clunky (e.g. it's easy to lose new posts and you can't 'like' other people's posts or edit your own) otherwise I suspect it'd be a lot more lively...
Think I'll be sticking with the Abarth for a while now I've got it close to how I like it, unless rust claims the bodyshell first or I decide to reshell it into a cabrio I suspect my next car will be a next-gen EV... Plenty of cheapish 2nd hand spares out there on Ebay, easy to find copies of the pre-2015 EPER to get part numbers from (post-facelift cars can be a bit more tricky though) and plenty of 3rd party mods to make the car faster or handle better. Combine that with the lovely exhaust note from a Record Monza (an older gentleman outside a shop commented on it the other day - he was expecting an Alfa or a Jag to pull up, not a tiny Fiat) and you've got the perfect tiny performance car, maybe a 'proper' Mini Cooper for modern roads :thumb:
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: davidbuckden on February 07, 2022, 02:04:13 pm
Agree that this forum could benefit from some additional functionality features. I fully respect your obvious allegiance to the Abarth marque, and I wasn't suggesting that you should try a VW product again - just positing that the Lupo Gti 'format' is of the type which you now aptly characterise as a 'tiny performance car.' Regards. David
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on February 07, 2022, 03:03:15 pm
Agree that this forum could benefit from some additional functionality features. I fully respect your obvious allegiance to the Abarth marque, and I wasn't suggesting that you should try a VW product again - just positing that the Lupo Gti 'format' is of the type which you now aptly characterise as a 'tiny performance car.' Regards. David
I've got allegiances to Subarus and older Alfas too, and I certainly waffle on about them enough :) I don't think any true car enthusiast would completely write off another car make (except for maybe a G-Wiz) so definitely no offense taken and hopefully none given, but I'm hoping my Abarth will last me until I can afford / am ready to buy something like an M series i4 EV or suchlike...
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on February 08, 2022, 10:57:38 am
Got the Sparco seat base refurb finished, much more comfortable with softer perforated vinyl and memory foam. Last job to do there might be to remove the headrest sides to allow easier access to the seatbelts, but will have to see on that.
Next job will be to see if I can modify a pre-fl parcel shelf to take a facelift glovebox. Looks like it should be a straight swap, but it isn't - the glovebox is actually narrower than the parcel shelf so I'll need to cut up an old parcel shelf and see if I can use that for glovebox mounts.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: 124Abarthreplica on February 08, 2022, 12:53:58 pm
You'd have thought the glove box would be a straight swap for the earlier shelf.
Obviously not :whistle:
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on February 08, 2022, 02:32:58 pm
You'd have thought the glove box would be a straight swap for the earlier shelf.
Obviously not :whistle:
Who'd have thunk it? ;D
I did read a bunch of threads from people when the facelift was new saying 'it looks like an easy bolt on swap' but that they couldn't try because the gloveboxes cost a fortune back then, but now you can pick them up for £30 you can test easily enough, and, er, nope...
Funny really, the facelift seems so different to the pre-fl in so many different ways, from the dash, through the headlining and headlight electronics to the ecu. It's probably easier to convert a pre-fl into a Panda 4x4 (not the bodywork, that'd be silly!) than it is to convert it into a facelift...
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on February 10, 2022, 09:53:16 am
Confirmed, absolutely no way the facelift glove box will fit a pre-facelift without a load of modifications...
Challenge accepted :thumb:
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: 124Abarthreplica on February 10, 2022, 09:57:25 am
You can see why it's not a straight bolt-on job here: (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/aIJF2Y.jpg)
Though it can be made to fit with some fairly substantial plastic trimming. However, even then, it fouls the cross-bar on the pre-fl dashboard, and the only solution is to cut a section of the crossbar out. (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/TctJG6.jpg)
If you do it carefully and ensure the screw mounts remain intact you can still bolt the original shelf back in, even after the change. But I presume that flimsy crossbar must have been there for some reason other than being annoying.
But after a bit more cutting and drilling on the glovebox to make it fit the upper parcel shelf mounts, and cannibalizing an old pre-fl parcel shelf for the side cheeks, it does fit and doesn't look too bad: (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/U4Kh9l.jpg)
Well, at least until you open it ::) (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/5iNLJE.jpg)
Last job is to create some brackets to ensure the glovebox lower mounts line up with the ones on the dashboard, and put some sticky pads under the side cheeks so they don't rattle. Not quite as pretty (or simple) as I hoped, but it gives me the welcome space to stash my TomTom and mount in, which is def a good thing.
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: 124Abarthreplica on February 10, 2022, 07:48:31 pm
Ok, well done but where is the secret compartment for the V5 document :whistle:
Title: Re: My project begins...
Post by: mj2k on February 11, 2022, 01:20:23 am
Ok, well done but where is the secret compartment for the V5 document :whistle:
In my desk ;D
I'd assumed the secret compartment was for the user manual, but I understand it's too small for that so never really understood what it was for, guess it all added to the pre-fl 500's quirky charm though, like the other odd little secret storage compartments.