Abarthisti

Abarth Cars => Abarth 500 => Topic started by: simer on December 05, 2008, 02:03:27 pm

Title: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: simer on December 05, 2008, 02:03:27 pm
One of the guys on FF has pointed out that in Germany there are currently 125 Abarth 500's for sale sitting ready and waiting in dealers showrooms. They are a mix of demonstrators, pre-reg and new.

This apparent oversupply can't be good for secondhand values. 

After the initial launch hype when people will be paying full whack I certainly hope that Fiat don't do the same in the UK.

When they introduced the Panda 100HP they assured customers that it was only going to be produced in limited numbers but look now and you can get a brand new one at almost 1/3 off.

If that isn't depressing used values I don't know what is.

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html... (http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?isSearchRequest=true&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&lang=en&scopeId=C&_features=on&bodyStyleRadio=&makeModelVariant1.makeId=8800&makeModelVariant1.modelId=9&makeModelVariant1.modelDescription=abarth&makeModelVariant2.makeId=&makeModelVariant2.modelDescription=&makeModelVariant3.makeId=&makeModelVariant3.modelDescription=&minFirstRegistrationDate=&maxFirstRegistrationDate=&minMileage=&maxMileage=&minPowerAsArray=&minPowerAsArray=KW&maxPowerAsArray=&maxPowerAsArray=KW&minPrice=&maxPrice=&export=ALSO_EXPORT&fuel=&transmission=&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&ambitCountry=&zipcode=&climatisation=&numSeats=&doorCount=&emissionClass=&emissionsSticker=&adLimitation=&daysAfterCreation=&usageType=&usedCarSeals=)
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: AlexK on December 05, 2008, 02:12:12 pm
You're on a real Abarth downer today, eh simer!
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: simer on December 05, 2008, 02:24:40 pm
It is interesting to see that there are only 101 Panda 100HP's for sale on the same website - and that is a car which has been on the market in Europe for over 2 years now.

Looks to me like they may be having real problems shifting the Abarth.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: John501 on December 05, 2008, 02:37:37 pm
With the greatest respect, a Panda 100hp is not an Abarth. Whilst it is a very special little car, it has more of a mass appeal because of the Insurance grouping, running costs etc. The kids can afford to buy and run those cars.
An Abarth on the other hand is never going to be group 5 insurance, wont return you mid 40's to the gallon and therefore is more of an aspirational car. Lots of people would love to own an Abarth but in the real world its not always going to win the "head over heart" argument that is often displayed in new car showrooms between a man and a women.
Because of these points, I dont feel we will have an over supply problem in the U.K. At the end of the day, a dealer only pays for the cars he calls from Portbury docks to his garage. If they are sat in Portbury, they are not costing me anything so the issue of needing to discount thus devalueing the brand does not excist. Abarth will not allow the U.K. to build more vehicles than demand dictates so the only issue that arises is that the customer may have to factory order a car more times than not.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: simer on December 05, 2008, 02:52:57 pm
I don't mean to be rude but if the Abarth is meant to be exclusive and aspirational I don't understand why are there 125 currently for sale in Germany versus 101 mass market Panda 100HP (which has been on the market for 2 years now)?

I also wonder why German Abarth dealers have apparently ended up with so many sitting in stock and genuinely fear the same happening here.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: AlexK on December 05, 2008, 03:08:15 pm
Simer, they haven't.

While the link you've provided appears to show 125 vehicles, there are not actually 125 vehicles in existence.

For instance, on the first page alone, there's a dealer that's listed the same vehicle 6 times.

If you visit that dealer's web site, you'll see they've actually only got two 500 Abarths.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: John501 on December 05, 2008, 03:14:50 pm
I dont know the figures for Germany, but the panda 100 did not and still does not sell well in the U.K. The suspension set up is too hard for the u.k mass market. Because the cars were produced by the factory, they will be used by Fiat to hit sales targets. This does not mean that they will be sold, but there will be large incentives given to the dealers to register these vehicles.
Maybe for the German market it did worse than the u.k so the factory lowered production hence there where not as many to pre reg. I still do not believe that the 500 Abarths for sale in Germany are pre-reg as they have not pre-reged any in Italy yet.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: simer on December 05, 2008, 03:17:08 pm
Simer, they haven't.

While the link you've provided appears to show 125 vehicles, there are not actually 125 vehicles in existence.

For instance, on the first page alone, there's a dealer that's listed the same vehicle 6 times.

If you visit that dealer's web site, you'll see they've actually only got two 500 Abarths.

I see what you mean - however my point remains - there are a significant number of stock Abarths for sale in Germany.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: John501 on December 05, 2008, 03:20:29 pm
They dont have to be registered cars though, I am holding 8 brand new G.P. Abarth in stock now. It makes sense because more often than not a customer will take what he can see and touch rather than wait for 3 weeks for a car to arrive.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: olopboy on December 05, 2008, 03:28:32 pm
Are they thier demos, remeber that the europen market isn't hamstrung by the Fiat group unlike the UK
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: euroboy on December 05, 2008, 03:28:49 pm
Simer, I explained more in my answer on Fiat Forum, but to put it simply there is not an oversupply situation.

Germany is a very peculiar market with a huge amount of export from dealers to neighbouring dealers in other countries.\

125 are listed on the site, but id very suprised if there were more than 30-40 real cars, which in a country the size of Germany, with its export numbers is not an oversupply!

They are selling the Abarths as fast as they can get them here in Holland.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: simer on December 05, 2008, 03:39:43 pm
Euroboy - I take your point about Germany - but on the issue of oversupply it all comes down to doing what suits the manufacturer best and that isn't necessarily to the benefit of the customer.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: olopboy on December 05, 2008, 03:54:15 pm
Euroboy - I take your point about Germany - but on the issue of oversupply it all comes down to doing what suits the manufacturer best and that isn't necessarily to the benefit of the customer.

Now I'm confused, it doesn't suit the manufactuer to over supply and judging by the wait times even in Europe that isn't happening.

I think you're just suffering from wait-stress I had to wait for 5 months for my Golf GTI and that drove me nuts but it was certainly worth it, and I'll be expecting a similar wait for my 500 even though it will also be nuts making. At least VW vaguely knew when they were release thier car to the UK though  ::)
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: simer on December 05, 2008, 04:56:09 pm
olopboy my point is that what is in the best interest of the manufacturer is not necessarily what is in the best interest of the consumer - or even the dealer come to that.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: olopboy on December 05, 2008, 05:11:51 pm
Yes thats a given they are a company and will try to do what is the most profitable. In the case of the Abarth it would appear to be restrict access to them to make them more desirable and so they can charge a premium i.e 500A costs the same as a GPA.

This logic then totally undermines any argument that they are over supplying, that is also supported by euroboy's 10 week wait, the fact that his dealer has a waiting list and the UK is being shafted by not getting them until next year.

What they are doing horribly wrong however is making the UK wait so long, no real detail on exact launch and not supplying the dealers with brochures, demos etc so people can see what they are being asked to put money down for.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: Portti on December 05, 2008, 08:52:02 pm
One of the guys on FF has pointed out that in Germany there are currently 125 Abarth 500's for sale sitting ready and waiting in dealers showrooms. They are a mix of demonstrators, pre-reg and new.

That would be me. ;)

...This apparent oversupply can't be good for secondhand values.  ...

I have been following the german 500 Abarth market pretty closely since I might buy my car from there. I don't see any signs of oversupply of the 500A in the german market at the moment. There are no big discounts available at the moment and the number of cars for sale is in no way exceptional. Like somebody else said the German market is huge and there should be quite many cars for sale at one time.

The internet discount new car brokers in germany usually have quite big discounts available for most new cars. You can get on average approx. 15 per cent discount on most new cars. You can get 15 per cent off from a new Golf VI which is a brand new model. However the regular 500 is one of the few exceptions where the discounts are approx. 5 per cent. 500 Abarth is mostly not yet available through these brokers.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: John501 on December 05, 2008, 09:02:10 pm
Thanks Portti, I didn't know it was you that had made the comment on FF. Obviously you are not 12 years old and I meant no offence, but you have to see my point about not knowing who people are that post on forums.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: Portti on December 05, 2008, 09:18:59 pm
... Obviously you are not 12 years old ....

Yes, I'm quite a bit older than that. ;) No offence taken and I do get your point.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: Ryan on December 06, 2008, 01:00:45 am
What they are doing horribly wrong however is making the UK wait so long, no real detail on exact launch and not supplying the dealers with brochures, demos etc so people can see what they are being asked to put money down for.

Someone from Fiat please please read this guys wisdom.

Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: John501 on December 06, 2008, 02:46:03 pm
Ryan, Why would Fiat care? Abarth is not Fiat, they  are completely different companies.
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: Missing in Action on December 06, 2008, 06:11:22 pm

What they are doing horribly wrong however is making the UK wait so long, no real detail on exact launch and not supplying the dealers with brochures, demos etc so people can see what they are being asked to put money down for.

totally agree with this... the lack of a brochure for both the APG and the A500 is pritty poor to be honest!... i mean there cant be another car out there that you cant get a brochure for!?
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: Joe on December 06, 2008, 06:35:39 pm
It's a bit of a pisstake tbh - all i've received is a letter telling me what i already know and a spec sheet with a picture of the dash from a GPA  ::)

I then got an email last week saying the demonstartor won't arrive til January and an attachment of the same spec list I got in the post.

I feel sorry for the dealers who are obviously struggling to give the customers any information without repeating themselves because abarth can't pull their fingers out. How difficult would it be for them to send 1 demonstrator to each uk dealer and produce say 2000 brochures? I used to work at a printers and could do something like that in about a week!

If they are oversupplied in germany they could send them over here as demos!! Just have to swap our arms round!  ;D
Title: Re: 500 Abarth oversupply issues
Post by: OPC on December 06, 2008, 08:15:54 pm
Abarth are a bit of a joke to be honest. I work for a company turning over under 10 million a year even they can manage to put decent glossy brochures together on their products. How many people work for Abarth UK? Is it just one man working in the basement of Fiat UK?

Once you actually get hold of a car, you'll feel a lot better though. The GPA is a good fun car to own and I'm sure that the 500A will be as well.