Abarth Cars => Abarth 500 => Topic started by: mutsey on March 10, 2010, 07:31:40 pm
Title: autocar
Post by: mutsey on March 10, 2010, 07:31:40 pm
just bought autocar 500 abarth v mini cooper v citreon ds3 good read and abarth won !!!!!! :thumb: :) :) :)
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: John501 on March 10, 2010, 08:38:13 pm
Good article but for Gods sake Autocar, ITS NOT A FIAT!!!!! It has seperate SMMT data, it doesn't mention Fiat on the log book :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Maybe the only way they will get it is if we all e-mail the editor and remind him then it may sink in :crazy:
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: Joe on March 10, 2010, 08:40:22 pm
It does get annoying. Accoriding to my insurance certificate I drive a "FIAT 500 A R B A R T H T-JE" ::)
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: DraigFlag on March 10, 2010, 08:41:38 pm
Good article but for Gods sake Autocar, ITS NOT A FIAT!!!!! It has seperate SMMT data, it doesn't mention Fiat on the log book :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Maybe the only way they will get it is if we all e-mail the editor and remind him then it may sink in :crazy:
I tried to put A R BARTH but Alex's clever magic word correcting machine fixed it ;D
So did I! Hence why i did it like that :thumb:
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: olopboy on March 10, 2010, 09:20:28 pm
You can blame me for making Alex put that in the filter, try spelling Esseesse with too few Es in the middle :)
Despite their in ability to get the manufacturer as stated on the V5 correct you can see where they are coming from though ;)
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: mutsey on March 10, 2010, 09:35:12 pm
evo mag was esseesse version , against cooper s i think ????
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: Salvos_White_Abarth on March 11, 2010, 06:38:34 pm
anybody got a link to it?i cant find it on the autocar website and i fancied a read.haha
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: barry on March 11, 2010, 10:55:20 pm
Go and buy a copy!!!!
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: Delaney on March 12, 2010, 05:18:47 pm
Very interesting.
It makes quite clear that 6 speed boxes which i have always said the Abarth needed (and even my wife complains about it now) shows its benefits here for the Mini (the heaviest car) economy figures CO2 figures and the performance although the drag coefiecients are not shown they wont be to different between the Mini and the Citroen which both have the same engine in (although the compresion ratio shown say 10.5:1 for the Citroen and 11.1:1 for the Mini).
The 'BMW invented this class' statement is rubbish Alec Issigonis and Dante Giacossa did no dispute. All BMW ever did was stick an awful american engine which had problems lining up with the gearbox in the retro shell and finally gave up and sourced a great engine from the PSA group.
The other issue that is highlighted in the summary section Great White Hopes is the issue of the Abarths fuel tank i would be overjoyed with a tank the size of the Citroen but as the 500 was designed with engines with far greater mpg's than the Abarths it is a compramise we have to live with. Which can be enjoyable when you get all the stares every time you go to petrol station!
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: Salvos_White_Abarth on March 12, 2010, 08:36:15 pm
i bought my copy today to read at work.
cracking review. the ds3 does sound a good comfortable car but personaly i dont like the look of the thing.some will though. i had a nice read on my break and i couldnt stop showin the people at work. "this is what im having yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy". dont think they cared to be honest haha
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: Lagerlout on March 12, 2010, 09:04:11 pm
It makes quite clear that 6 speed boxes which i have always said the Abarth needed (and even my wife complains about it now) shows its benefits here for the Mini (the heaviest car) economy figures CO2 figures and the performance although the drag coefiecients are not shown they wont be to different between the Mini and the Citroen which both have the same engine in (although the compresion ratio shown say 10.5:1 for the Citroen and 11.1:1 for the Mini).
The 'BMW invented this class' statement is rubbish Alec Issigonis and Dante Giacossa did no dispute. All BMW ever did was stick an awful american engine which had problems lining up with the gearbox in the retro shell and finally gave up and sourced a great engine from the PSA group.
The other issue that is highlighted in the summary section Great White Hopes is the issue of the Abarths fuel tank i would be overjoyed with a tank the size of the Citroen but as the 500 was designed with engines with far greater mpg's than the Abarths it is a compramise we have to live with. Which can be enjoyable when you get all the stares every time you go to petrol station!
I've thought about this six speed box malarky for quite a while now my car has a huge rush of power from 3.5k upwards. In addition my Wife's 500 has the six speed box and it's a nice little unit. I've been reliably informed that the 5 speed box in the Abarth has been used in various other turbo applications up to 450nm of torque, reliably, and has been about in Fiat's stable since the early 90's. So this is the main reason our cars have the 5 speed box, it's pretty strong and proven.
Most performance cars these days with six speed boxes have long legs, ie they rev out to well over 7,000 rpm and up to 9000 rpm. Thats great with a six speed box, not so great with a car rev limited to just over 6000 rpm. This rev limit indicates that the static balancing of the various engine components on the car is unlikely to be to the standards necessary to raise the rev limit substantially. My car has another 500 rpm on standard and a very lightweight flywheel/clutch assembly and all items attached to the crank have been balanced to very fine levels (pistons/rods/flywheel/clutch etc).
With the lightweight setup on my drivetrain the engine spins up so fast the rev limit is approached very, very quickly. My thoughts often turn to a DSG system, or a sequential system. My hand might be forced if the box lets go at some point anyway!
With my car, I would think a six speed box might be a bit difficult with the limited rev range. On a standard (slower revving) Abarth a six speed box would probably be about right as I found mine dropped out of the turbo a bit too easily so keeping the revs up would be a good thing. The problem here is that the current six speed box is not designed to cope with the torque from the Abarth. I imagine the next edition of the Abarth will include an uprated six speed box. It's a logical step.
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: Delaney on March 12, 2010, 09:51:28 pm
Well with the new box the C635 which will be in the Abarth Punto Evo (not in DSG form) FGA name TCT will be the box we look forward to in future models. It is on the motorway that in particular no 6th is a pain as i was so use in my S6 to just put your foot down in 6th and it went and i belive as you say in standard models it should work which is my feeling. A 6th would as i mentioned about the Mini would provide a side benefit of economy.
As the TCT version is now available with Alfa it is just the electronics that is more of the issue as it uses a lot of sensors etc and how easy that will be to put in the A500 would be an issue as the loom would require some rework. The other issue is just the physical postioning gearbox / engine mounts and potentially the location of steering rack.
For now i'll just have to do with my lightning fast shifts.
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: Lagerlout on March 12, 2010, 10:22:22 pm
Totally agree, the car is crying out for a cruising gear.
Title: Re: autocar
Post by: GTMartin on March 13, 2010, 01:08:47 pm
Did I read somewhere there was a taller 5th gear available from one of the after market tuners, if you are prepared to take the gearbox apart.