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Author Topic: Real world bhp figures standard A500  (Read 11215 times)

Offline Griffs998

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Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2012, 07:25:42 pm »
I dislike the torque wins races saying as it simply isnt true - 206 ft lb's of toque is indeed higher than a jcw mini but given the 500 has a 5 speed box will use longer ratios which will decrease the amount of torque available to the wheels which is a much better indication than just comparing engines - more needs to be taken into account - although for the purposes of pub banter its a nice thing to say  :thumb:

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    Offline corsa

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    Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
    « Reply #31 on: June 01, 2012, 01:21:17 pm »
    Well said Griffs... :thumb:

    There are a lot of cars out there that will outperform an Abarth with less Torque...
    In the end power (which is nothing else than a mathematical derivate from power)and gear ratio make the "race".


    w18bla

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    Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
    « Reply #32 on: June 01, 2012, 02:23:58 pm »
    And spend £20k will work aswell.... Plus get the right person behind the wheel helps too :)

    Offline Griffs998

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    Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
    « Reply #33 on: June 01, 2012, 03:34:56 pm »
    like your hypermotard corsa (still awaiting pics  :whistle:)  much more torque from a big 1100 2 valve twin than say a 600cc jap 4 cylinder rice rocket but it revs a lot lower and therefore produces less power - because its greater torque is more than offset buy the ability of the jap bike to rev the jap bike can use much lower gearing which (in a straight line at least) make up for its torque deficiency - its not just how much torque is produced but at what revs its produced at - torque is a product of how much air fuel can be burnt at a time - more can but burnt in one rotation of a crank in a 1100cc motor but a jap 4 can rev higher meaning although it burns less it burns slightly less a lot faster which is why it produces more power - does more work - i've not read back through it and given ive only hard an hour or 2's sleep i hope ive managed to somewhat convey a fairly abstract and somewhat subtle subject - i think im trying to say that power not torque is a better marker for gauging the ability of a vehicle to accelerate

    Offline chris_jh

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    Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
    « Reply #34 on: June 01, 2012, 04:39:07 pm »
    Yeah look at diesels - loads of torque and in gear acceleration, but the 0-60 time is nothing to write home about.
    For example look at the Skoda Fabria vRS - 130bhp with 228lb ft of torque but with a 0-60 time of 9.6...

    Offline t3scn

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    Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
    « Reply #35 on: June 01, 2012, 07:10:25 pm »
    My personal view is that I prefer in gear acceleration, 0-60/62 times are meaningless in real world situations. Give me a torquey engine anyday!

    Haing said that Griffs point is valid, a well balanced engine (torque and peak power) would be ideal. As a Ducati owner myself I still prefer the torquey end of the scale though  8)

    Offline corsa

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    Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
    « Reply #36 on: June 01, 2012, 07:18:28 pm »
    In the end of the day it depends how one wants to use the engine...

    In a daily driver I like an engine with quite a bit of low end torque, so one can cruise along at low revs, but when you floor it the car will actually move. That was a reason why I could never get myself to buy a Civic Type R (purely engine wise!), as you always have to rev the nuts out of it before it actually moves...

    On a track toy the use of engine power is slightly different again ;D

    Offline Griffs998

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    Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
    « Reply #37 on: June 01, 2012, 08:04:44 pm »
    exactly - there are as many different opinions on what constitutes a good road engine as there are people - the term 'area under the curve' is used as general advice towards the best compromise for a road engine. Usable spread over a peak number in other words. I personally dont really have a preference, its whatever mood i find myself in - some days i find myself enjoying thrashing a 2 stroke other days its  more satisfying to waft along on a wave of turbo torque. Although yes if you have just the one mode of transport then a spread is best. I was in a 600 hp evo IX the other day and while off boost performance wouldnt trouble to skin of a rice pudding and made for a few frustrating incidences, there is something addictivly perverse just cruising round off boost but then to have the ability to knock the world off its axis just a down shift away.

    The best road engine i have ever used though was a 1100 monster - air cooled 2 valve twin that was tuned upto about 100 wheel hp - standard being 85ish - 2 valve dukes always pull hard off the bottom but to then have it still going hard past 8k towards the redline was incredibly satisfying - much more so than most jap stuff that would still ultimately be quicker - for me though that was an is the ultimate ROAD engine - What duke do you have t3scn

    Offline t3scn

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    Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
    « Reply #38 on: June 01, 2012, 08:27:45 pm »
    On a track toy the use of engine power is slightly different again ;D

    Agreed, never liked the Type R personally the handling has always been a interesting subject too.

    exactly - there are as many different opinions on what constitutes a good road engine as there are people

    My very point Griff  :thumb:

    The best road engine i have ever used though was a 1100 monster - air cooled 2 valve twin that was tuned upto about 100 wheel hp - standard being 85ish - 2 valve dukes always pull hard off the bottom but to then have it still going hard past 8k towards the redline was incredibly satisfying - much more so than most jap stuff that would still ultimately be quicker - for me though that was an is the ultimate ROAD engine - What duke do you have t3scn

    Well my friend it appears we share a very similar view, more of a 4 valve twin man but any Duc twin floats my boat (and the odd single - Supermono).

    My current steed is this:





    You can't beat the sound/bark of a well tuned v-twin  :-*

    Offline Griffs998

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    Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
    « Reply #39 on: June 01, 2012, 08:37:32 pm »
    i've already had a shower tonight to prepare for going out but after those pics i might be back in for a cold one - stunning - i do think for the 749/999 the styling went a little arye- but there is no doubting the pedigree sunk into it - i think the 998R will be the ultimate development of maybe not the engine with the advent of the 1098/1198 ect but certainly the package - looks ect - i mourn to this day that ducati never made a road going supermono -

    Offline t3scn

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    Re: Real world bhp figures standard A500
    « Reply #40 on: June 01, 2012, 08:43:47 pm »
    i've already had a shower tonight to prepare for going out but after those pics i might be back in for a cold one - stunning - i do think for the 749/999 the styling went a little arye- but there is no doubting the pedigree sunk into it - i think the 998R will be the ultimate development of maybe not the engine with the advent of the 1098/1198 ect but certainly the package - looks ect - i mourn to this day that ducati never made a road going supermono -

    ha ha, we are back to personal choice again then as I think the series was a step forward and the 1098/1198 is a bit of a step back in style but hay ho we are different.