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Author Topic: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?  (Read 8914 times)

Offline lloyd

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Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2012, 09:24:04 pm »
Ashleys 235 came from the same rolling road session that saw 3 other AGP SSs give between 210 and 220, mine included, you could feel the difference on Ashleys car on the road :thumb:

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    Offline Yordan

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #16 on: July 02, 2012, 09:24:40 pm »
    Some engines can produce a lot more than stated out of the box. I know of NP 500 which made 151 standard. It is red too. As for Ashley's car it for real.  :thumb:

    Offline x18pjr

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #17 on: July 02, 2012, 10:55:19 pm »
    Sorry I have never seen the car, that power at Santa pod should see low to mid 13s 1/4 mile,

    Which rolling road was that at, please don't say at bromsgrove that guy is full of sh*t

    Anyway back to the topic I would aim for 230bhp with full boost to the limiter

    Offline lloyd

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #18 on: July 02, 2012, 11:00:06 pm »
    Silverstone at Queensferry North Wales, TMC used it and arranged 2 or 3 Abarth days there :thumb:

    Offline x18pjr

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #19 on: July 02, 2012, 11:50:10 pm »
    O right, I'm going go my local dyno and see want it makes

    Sorry I find it hard to believe, how a tmc can make 55+ do you know want the boost pressure is and when does it die off in the revs

    Offline ashley_r_84

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #20 on: July 03, 2012, 12:46:55 am »
    It went on the rollers at silver stone along with 3 other AGP's. Lloyd, Matt Needham and myself only had TMc at the time....Lloyds ran something like 218BHP, Matts ran 214/215BHP, A84RTH ran 221BHP with TMC, Exhaust and Induction kit. Mine ran 235BHP with only TMC box.
    A number of 500s ran as well and the figures they ran on the same rollers have been replicated elsewhere too.

    The figures are all on here somewhere, I'll have a search in the morning.

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    Offline cliff

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #21 on: July 03, 2012, 01:12:42 am »
    I'd say Ash's bhp figure was correct - that lil red rocket is a flying machine. It pulls away from mine no problem :'(
    Now that I'm a grown up I drive a sensible grey 595 Competizione with grey leather sabelt seats and yellow brake calipers. It's jolly nice! It's got a name - ' Razzogrigio' Now with a custom S/S group N style exhaust, black Esseesse wheels and a GTT induction kit, all sitting on Eibach springs.

    Offline Yordan

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #22 on: July 03, 2012, 10:25:43 am »


    Sorry I find it hard to believe, how a tmc can make 55+ do you know want the boost pressure is and when does it die off in the revs

    TMC does not give you 55+ increase! Some engines as I posted earlier are more powerful than others. Even standard NP 500 are all over the place. If this is a good thing or bad thing no one knows. He's had a few issues due to the power output. I can't see why he has to prove it?

    Offline ashley_r_84

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #23 on: July 03, 2012, 03:27:51 pm »
    Sorry I have never seen the car, that power at Santa pod should see low to mid 13s 1/4 mile,

    Which rolling road was that at, please don't say at bromsgrove that guy is full of sh*t

    Anyway back to the topic I would aim for 230bhp with full boost to the limiter

    Who is this guy?

    Why would I want to take it all the way to Santa Pod to prove a point? I'm not interested in BHP figures, 1/4 mile times or any of that.....all I'm interested in is that the car works well on the road and on track.

    All I know is that it was quick and ran that figure on that day, don't know what the boost pressure etc was, neither would anyone else as far as I know. Doesn't the TMC box fool the ecu into thinking its boosting more ???
    Or something like that I've heard anyway so the boost figure would be wrong.

    On track in the hands of a very capable race driver (not myself) the car was holding off some pretty quick track cars (KTM X-bow also in the hands of another race driver) being one.

    When I put the exhaust and induction kit on we had to reduce the power as the turbo would not hold full boost so it clearly maxed the capabilities of the garrett 1446 turbo which is rated at around 250bhp??

    Anyway this thread and my original post was asking and discussing possibilities of getting that sort of power so stop saying that the figures I have quoted are bullsh*t as we have proof and a number of other cars ran within minutes of mine and figures as said were replicated on other dyno's too.

    And another point you made, yes FIAT put a bigger turbo on to gain just 25bhp but they have clearly under mapped the car for reliability. Look at an A500 as an example.....135bhp standard and they run the same turbo as the 155bhp agp. Do the math.....a re-mapped agp will run around the 170/180bhp mark.....standard A500 re-mapped will run 170 as a conservative estimate so that is what? 35/45bhp more? Doesn't seem so unrealistic to me!
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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #24 on: July 03, 2012, 03:40:33 pm »
    Fact is, if you want 250bhp don't buy a 1.4litre get a 2litre turbo like a Astra Vxr, megane 250 or focus st.

    Offline sandys

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #25 on: July 03, 2012, 03:45:37 pm »
    Fact is, if you want 250bhp don't buy a 1.4litre get a 2litre turbo like a Astra Vxr, megane 250 or focus st.

    Probably the most cost effective way to achieve it reliably also.

    Alfa popped the 1750 TBi engine in the Mito GTA concept, so would likely fit in the Punto that might be another route if you want to be a trailblazer.
    « Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 03:49:54 pm by sandys »

    Offline ashley_r_84

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #26 on: July 03, 2012, 03:52:54 pm »
    Fact is, if you want 250bhp don't buy a 1.4litre get a 2litre turbo like a Astra Vxr, megane 250 or focus st.

    Agreed :thumb:
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    Offline corsa

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #27 on: July 03, 2012, 04:02:30 pm »
    I love these sort of discussions...
    Plain reason is that I get distracted from work and keep typing some words together ;D

    To the original thread starter:
    I think your target is a tiny bit high...
    Except for one exception (I will come back to that later...) most of the TMC'd ones with exhaust and intake produce somewhere along the <220 benchmark. The 1.4 will make more power, but then you would have to go for a deeper operation, including turbo, pistons, fuel injectors etc. Then also replacing some weak factory parts as hoses, attachments, sensors... This will surely give you a reliable 250> bhp...
    If it were that easy... ;D ;) If I had the target of driving a powerful hot hatch with that power though, I would pick something else...

    To quickly join the OT regarding Ash's car and x18's comments:
    I agree it is fairly unbelievable and I at first had my doubts too...
    Then again when you look at the fact that other cars make a 210-220bhp then the jump to 15bhp more is theoretically and practically possible.
    I drove Ash's car several laps on track and it feels very good (just talking about power delivery here).
    Maximum power is definitely over a Mk5 GTI (that officially produced 200bhp, but often had a chunk more).

    I am the first one to be very critical about ridiculous power numbers (see numerous of my comments on remapped & induction 500s with '>180bhp'), but this case I can only confirm what has been said.

    Also I find reading your posts slightly irritating.
    Not only that the typos are utterly strange (want > what, has > as), but it also appears (might not be the case) that you seem to be quite aggressive about it (I might be wrong, as it's difficult to read between the lines...)


    Offline SJH

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #28 on: July 03, 2012, 05:13:26 pm »
    Ah BHP wars - its what boys do when they grow up..... :whistle:

    Honestly, there is a good deal of sense on here.

    I agree:

    1. Lightness is good, often cheaper and flaming hilarious when you pass some heavy-weight, expensive, powerful thing....
    2. Power is no use unless the car can actually use it. Konis/other suspension mods etc as above may well assist more than a few more horses as will tyre choice for that matter;
    3. Ash's car is quick in a straight line - much more so than you would expect so the above figures don't surprise me.

    Anyway, isn't all that OT?

    Russ wants answers.....

    Offline corsa

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    Re: APE SS - Target 230 - 250BHP - how ?
    « Reply #29 on: July 03, 2012, 05:32:41 pm »
    Answer (what I would do, if I had the intention to get significantly more power of the car):

    Option A:
    TMC box (or similar), sport cat, bigger exhaust.

    Option B (tech geek version):
    Changed air intake, bigger turbo (or even custom build with 1446 and 25xx parts), some work on the head, forged internals, cam shaft, sport cat, exhaust.

    The latter should produce quite a bit of oomph that will be reliable (even in high stress situations), will be hilarious, but not really cost-effective.

    Answer given ;D
    Enjoy your choice ;D