Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length


Author Topic: Money No Object Tuning  (Read 4663 times)

Offline FullMetalScorpion

  • S2000 Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
  • Carlo Rating: 3
  • APE Supersport+
    • A Small Town In Sheffield
Money No Object Tuning
« on: April 09, 2014, 07:32:38 pm »
I'm certainly not saying money is no object for me, I wish. Its more about a general question about what is possible with an APE. I know a lot of answers will be that there's no point, just get another car, its fwd so pointless, its fine as it is or swap the engine. I would also like to say that I'm generally happy with car as is. But I just wanted to discuss what is theoretically possible if money or sanity wasn't an issue.

As the APE is fairly rare I haven't seen any highly modified high HP monsters. But looking at what TMC Motorsport can do with the 500 (well over 200 bhp) is that possible with the multi air and 6 speed box? In the mno role I would fit the forge front intercooler, forge air filter, copper cored rad, uprated injectors and rail, limited slip diff, uprated clutch, uprated actuator, bigger turbo followed by a live remap. Now lets say any of that is possible are we talking about 250 bhp or nowhere near? What would the limit of the car be without swapping the engine or having a stripped out race fuel rally car?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 01:41:25 pm by will-w »

AbarthForum.co.uk

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    Offline Stevey383

    • Assetto Member
    • **
    • Posts: 78
    • Carlo Rating: 1
      • Inverness, Scotland (go further north you get wet feet)
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 08:19:33 pm »
    Have a look at spike. Its lagerlouts a500 it hit 300bhp at one point (think he has lowered it to 280ish now). Looking at the list of work done i done think there is much you can do ontop of that. I know his is a 500 but the engine is similar.
    onto my second AGP :)

    Offline FullMetalScorpion

    • S2000 Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 784
    • Carlo Rating: 3
    • APE Supersport+
      • A Small Town In Sheffield
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 09:06:11 pm »
    Have a look at spike. Its lagerlouts a500 it hit 300bhp at one point (think he has lowered it to 280ish now). Looking at the list of work done i done think there is much you can do ontop of that. I know his is a 500 but the engine is similar.

    Like you said engines are similar but theres also the 6 speed box too. Im sure the US 500 has the 1.4 multi air engine but not sure about the box. Just thinking that their might be a highly tuned US 500 out there.

    Offline sandys

    • S2000 Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1296
    • Carlo Rating: 2
      • Bristol
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 12:21:55 am »
    Money no object, chop it in for something better :whistle:

    Offline FullMetalScorpion

    • S2000 Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 784
    • Carlo Rating: 3
    • APE Supersport+
      • A Small Town In Sheffield
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 07:23:06 am »
    Money no object, chop it in for something better :whistle:

    As I said in the original post ,well done you've made one of the obvious answers you have won a prize...

    Offline sandys

    • S2000 Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1296
    • Carlo Rating: 2
      • Bristol
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 10:06:40 am »
    I like to provide the stock answers to the question so many APE owners ask, but as yet not many have followed through with ;D  ;)

    If you use the search you should find info for 250-270bhp on the multi air, Gtech are the guys who do it, wouldn't be surprised if multiair tuning picked up pace now the US bods get the engine in a 500.

    Of course you have asked about AGP which doesn't have multiair, so perhaps I have the wrong end of the stick.

    There aren't many limits to what you can achieve with time patience and money, patience is probably the biggest one as I've discovered once you start dicking about you have to be prepared for a lot of trial and error, says man who is sat in garage gear box out for a second time rectifying a bit of trial and error :-D

    Offline FullMetalScorpion

    • S2000 Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 784
    • Carlo Rating: 3
    • APE Supersport+
      • A Small Town In Sheffield
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 11:22:07 am »
    I did put AGP for some reason,apologies to you sir I shall rectify  :thumb:

    Well I would if I could,I meant APE obviously.
    « Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 11:24:32 am by FullMetalScorpion »

    Offline will-w

    • S2000 Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 2287
    • Carlo Rating: 8
    • 'Captain Slow'
      • Kent
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 01:41:54 pm »
    Updated your first post :)
    Abarth Punto Supersport
    Grigio Campovolo, Assetto Koni, Esseesse floating brakes, Skydome
    Summer: Gunmetal 18" Esseesse with Bridgestone Potenza RE050A
    Winter: Official Abarth Winter Kit (17" with Pirelli Sottozero 210)

    Offline FullMetalScorpion

    • S2000 Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 784
    • Carlo Rating: 3
    • APE Supersport+
      • A Small Town In Sheffield
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 02:21:53 pm »
    Updated your first post :)

    Thank you  :)

    Offline Simon-bp

    • Abarth Wannabe
    • *
    • Posts: 37
    • Carlo Rating: 0
      • Devon
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 07:03:43 pm »
    Money no object! If only hey?! Personally I wouldn't want to go much more than 200-220bhp without fitting forged pistons and replacing all the hoses with better quality ones. It is relatively easy to get high BHP figures from turbo cars but the secret is getting them reliably. Yes I know it is boring but who wants a car that's got all these trick bits but doesn't actually go? Also the gearbox fitted to the APE isn't the best and would seem to be the ultimate limiting factor. (A Quaife diff should help).
    It's not all about BHP figures, how about reducing weight by fitting lightweight front suspension arms, lightweight wheels, fibreglass or carbon fibre panels etc?
    As for "money no object" I've got to find another £400 for yet another service!! :thumbd:

    Offline sandys

    • S2000 Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1296
    • Carlo Rating: 2
      • Bristol
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 09:00:58 pm »
    The diff is not the bit that fails on the box, that won't help reliability , most likely related to the way it's splash fed and how cars are used.

    Gtech do the pistons and fuel pressure etc on their upgrade, it is not just upping boost and hoping for the best.

    Offline Simon-bp

    • Abarth Wannabe
    • *
    • Posts: 37
    • Carlo Rating: 0
      • Devon
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 09:36:01 pm »
    All true! TMC also do the pistons for a grand + vat + p&p!

    Offline FullMetalScorpion

    • S2000 Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 784
    • Carlo Rating: 3
    • APE Supersport+
      • A Small Town In Sheffield
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #12 on: April 12, 2014, 06:52:43 pm »
    Well it does sound like high power figures have been achieved but as mentioned reliability is also key. APE ownership is a lonely road at best so I should imagine the US is where the best mods will come from. The gearbox does seem to be a very weak link and a big hinderence on performance. A lot of cars like the Fiesta ST have the same amount of power as a Supersport or SS but a much faster 0 to 60 time. I know it was mentioned in another post that the gearbox is the reason for the relatively slow (in class) 0 to 60 time of the Abarth Puntos. So increasing the horse power maybe pointless anyway if that doesnt translate into faster acceleration on the road. Im certainly not a fan of Top Gear magazine but their review of the APE is interesting. The reviewer basically summed up the car as best being seen not as a hot hatch but as a mini GT car and maybe thats how Abarth intended it to be. I always found it strange that in the 2 car stable of Abarth that the smaller car has a 1.4 and the bigger car also has a 1.4. I cant think of any other  case where this has happened before. The Abarth Puntos would have faired better if given their own identity by Fiat and fitted with bigger 1.8 or 1.6 engines and obviously a better gearbox. Maybe pushing out 180 bhp as standard and upto 200 on the ss models and going for a 0 to 60 time of just under 7 seconds. The trouble then would be that they would ask more for the car and as a result I couldnt afford one anyway. So im in danger of breaking my own rules and saying that an engine and box swap would be the best option. Or even as Sandy pointed out get another car.

    Offline Juggler

    • Esseesse Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 243
    • Carlo Rating: 0
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #13 on: April 12, 2014, 07:13:28 pm »
    These are just my thoughts, and not criticisms of other views (so please don't take them as such). I have had the following: 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX, 2003 E46 M3, A500 TMC, Current APE S/Sport.

    We're talking about a front wheel drive car, and the limits of traction (up to a certain speed). I would suggest over 200 BHP is not usable in first gear - my A500 would wheelspin in damp conditions, and that was without the TMC box fitted.

    200BHP+ will of course give you great mid range acceleration (40-80+), but unless you want to collect more points than Sunderland this season is it really usable on the road? The M3 was a real hooligan, but all the power and speed is not really (safely) usable on the road.

    So, there are track days. This is where you can use all the power and speed you've added. But at £100+ a day, unless your name's Bernie, thats what? 1 a month at best?

    I think we get suckered into comparisons with other cars, which kind of ends up as "pub bragging rights", and is as pointless as a 0-60 time. A car is much more than a Bhp figure, or 0-60 time. If I wanted as much power as the Clio, I would have bought one. I didn't want a Renault, I wanted something different, something interesting.

    Back to road use. The WRX was the most usable performance car I've owned, mainly down to the 4WD. So, if I could have any of them now, what would it be? The APE if I'm honest, cause I love it and can find no fault (yet), and all my other cars had them.

    All of the above aside, I'm thinking about an Angel re-map!! ;D

    Offline Simon-bp

    • Abarth Wannabe
    • *
    • Posts: 37
    • Carlo Rating: 0
      • Devon
    Re: Money No Object Tuning
    « Reply #14 on: April 12, 2014, 08:56:19 pm »
    If I had won the lottery I would be interested in spending some of it on my APE as in this case it wouldn't be used for day to day transport.
    First I would want to source a decent 'box. I have seen on You tube that G-tech had a sequential box in a 500 which looked interesting. Or I would try obtaining the dog box in the new 595 Biposto. Then it would be fun to spend big on all the exciting bits.
    But it is only a 1.4 and all the cars I've seen it compared to here and in magazine reviews have been 1.6 turbo or 2.0 litre and always more expensive. The only other 1.4 turbo I can think of, other than the 500, is the Mitsubishi Colt Ralliart which I think was a bit cheaper but in my opinion no comparison to our wonderful APEs!

     

    hungry