Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length


Author Topic: Government £2,000 Trade In Scheme  (Read 3817 times)

Offline sandys

  • S2000 Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1296
  • Carlo Rating: 2
    • Bristol
Re: Government £2,000 Trade In Scheme
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2009, 10:37:50 am »
So they are encouraging you to scrap your old car for a new one because it does another 5-10 mpg?
Yet the environmental impact of making a new car and scrapping an old one vs the slightly improved mpg would mean it takes over 30 years to break even.

Hmm, some people really don't see the whole picture.
The same as those that call electric cars zero carbon foot print.  Well, where do you think the material for the car comes from, the energy used to make it, the energy used to generate the electricity to charge the batteries, the energy to scap it etc?

That's all assuming that the tiny % of CO2 produced by cars compared to that produced naturally makes any difference at all.

I hate this country and it's stupid politicians  :thumbd:
 

Well over the cars life time 10% of Co2 produced is manufacture, 5% scrapping and the rest the car produces, so its not all shorted sighted on that score.

Then there are other considerations like the number of jobs the sale of each car helps to save, regardless of which Marque you buy your car from there is a whole supporting worldwide infrastructure that gets propped up by this, OK so not many cars are assembled in the UK these days but from the view of my own limited field (semiconductors) things like tyre pressure sensors, bluetooth, audio ICs, ecus, air bag sensors and stuff like that have been design and manufactured in the UK for a number of mainstream manufacturers and I'm sure there are many other parts, there is also the dealer network and sales, the PDI guys at the docks, there are a lot of people/companies inviolved in vehicle supply and production, these people are all paying taxes and spending within our economy whist employed, if such a scheme is not put in place then you have to ask yourself how much each person is going to cost the country when the are unemployed and claiming benefits for 6 months.

There is also a safety aspect, most cheap cars these days come with a vast array of kit that older cars don't necessarily, safer cars = less death and injury in an incident.

regarding the money side of things ultimately the government with get it back through taxes and some form of road charging thats all inevitable and will come regardless of any schemes introduced now.

Then we have the UK being fined by for not hitting Co2 targets as another reason to help this, many reasons beyond mpg for this.

So i'd say on the whole you probably don't see the bigger picture!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 10:52:31 am by sandys »

AbarthForum.co.uk

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    Old Boy

    • Guest
    Re: Government £2,000 Trade In Scheme
    « Reply #16 on: March 17, 2009, 02:57:21 pm »
    The initial point of the £2k trade in scheme was purely environmental.  Only recently has the affect of stimulating the car market been mentioned.

    However with 80% of the new cars being registered in the UK being manufactured abroad, how is that really going to impact the UK market.  Why is the car industry (and other reliant UK manufacturing industries) a special case?  There are many business areas in the UK that require a similar injection of trade.

    The difference in mpg between a 10 year old car and a new one will still take 250,000 miles to pay back the carbon footprint of replacing.
    Now manufacturers CO2 figures are based on the final assembly of the car, and not on the whole end to end cost of obtaining raw materials, processing, transport etc.  It's not just CO2 either, what about use of raw materials or huge amounts of water used.

    It is just not environmentally sensible to scrap a perfectly good older car for a new one, especially when just the CO2 payback is much longer than the average life of the car.

    Most people that can afford to buy a new car don't have cars that are 10 years old.  It's those on lower incomes that run older cars so giving them £2k towards a new car either means nothing to them, or will put them in debt by having to finance it.  It's all this debt that's got us in the mess in the first place.

    So,

    Environmentally is doesn't add up.
    Fiscally it doesn't add up unless you're in the car industry then this is just a way for the Government to use even more taxpayers money to prop up affected businesses.

    It's tough out there, not just for the car industry, with a large proportion of people's jobs on the line.

    chunkymonkey

    • Guest
    Re: Government £2,000 Trade In Scheme
    « Reply #17 on: March 17, 2009, 07:14:17 pm »
    The initial point of the £2k trade in scheme was purely environmental.  Only recently has the affect of stimulating the car market been mentioned.

    However with 80% of the new cars being registered in the UK being manufactured abroad, how is that really going to impact the UK market.  Why is the car industry (and other reliant UK manufacturing industries) a special case?  There are many business areas in the UK that require a similar injection of trade.

    The difference in mpg between a 10 year old car and a new one will still take 250,000 miles to pay back the carbon footprint of replacing.
    Now manufacturers CO2 figures are based on the final assembly of the car, and not on the whole end to end cost of obtaining raw materials, processing, transport etc.  It's not just CO2 either, what about use of raw materials or huge amounts of water used.

    It is just not environmentally sensible to scrap a perfectly good older car for a new one, especially when just the CO2 payback is much longer than the average life of the car.

    Most people that can afford to buy a new car don't have cars that are 10 years old.  It's those on lower incomes that run older cars so giving them £2k towards a new car either means nothing to them, or will put them in debt by having to finance it.  It's all this debt that's got us in the mess in the first place.

    So,

    Environmentally is doesn't add up.
    Fiscally it doesn't add up unless you're in the car industry then this is just a way for the Government to use even more taxpayers money to prop up affected businesses.

    It's tough out there, not just for the car industry, with a large proportion of people's jobs on the line.


    yes, but a car thats 10 years old wont be nearly as safe as even something like a base model panda. one thing ive been concerned about with the downsizing trend is i think road safety will suffer for it, more and more people are buying old bangers (me included) that have no abs, airbags and are essentially early 90's designs just to be able to afford something to run around in.

    i also read that the 2 grand grant would be allowed to be used in conjunction with manufacturers' offers, so for instance, a brand new panda that starts at roughly 6 grand on 0% finance for 3/4 years, but with 2 grand paid for by the government doesnt sound a bad deal to me. 

    Offline richbrowne

    • S2000 Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 986
    • Carlo Rating: 0
      • Wiltshire
    Re: Government £2,000 Trade In Scheme
    « Reply #18 on: March 17, 2009, 08:32:49 pm »
    Can, Open, Worms, Everywhere :whistle:
    Funk White 500 Abarth esseesse|PaintShield|Red Leather|Red Mirror Backs|Climate|SkyDome|Electrochromatic Rear View Mirror|Aluminium Gear Knob

    chunkymonkey

    • Guest
    Re: Government £2,000 Trade In Scheme
    « Reply #19 on: March 17, 2009, 09:26:55 pm »
    its a tough situation and i dont think the government can come out of it looking good either way, if they try and prop up the economy by helping the car industry then theyre not helping the environment and vice versa.

    IMO it was going to hit the fan at some point anyway, in that people can only buy a car every 3 years or so for so long before there are too many cars on the road, most of them too good to scrap.

    i know it seems daft, but to me an x or y plate car is still in general a perfectly good car with years of life left in them, but these are the sort of cars that are going to be eligible under the scheme soon. 

    i guess the good thing will be more older, unsafe cars will be scrapped as people snap up the x or y plate ones, which for the most part will be safer, more fuel efficient and better constructed.

     

    hungry